Kingsnorth Climate camp is a wast of time.

[Strategist]

Cheers, Brigg.  On this specific question:

Ed Miliband’s conversion is a strong way of putting my point, and we all do that, but it’s my way of expressing your idea that he was persuaded by the demonstration. I just don’t see the demo having any effect whatever

I think we have to agree to differ here.  You say it had no effect whatsoever.  I say it was a factor, amongst others.  My view: Kingsnorth was not a cause celebre till Climate Camp and Greenpeace made it so.  That Kingsnorth would set such a crucially damaging precedent I suggest is not the advice Miliband (or his predecessor) would have been getting from his own people, and it took a high profile green campaign to bring this argument to his and the public's attention. 

I am all inf avour of direct action, and see it as essential if anything is to be done, as long as it's backed by effective political action of the mroe traditonal type.

Which is why I think the Campaign against Climate Change http://www.campaigncc.org/ could be just the organisation you should be supporting, an exhortation from me I don't think you have responded on. 

[Strategist]

By the way, can't resist this: 

http://www.uxbridgegazette.co.uk/west-london-news/local-uxbridge-news/2009/10/14/in-depth-heathrow-third-runway-113046-24927072/

That's two projects targetted by Climate Camp scrapped in a week.  Not a bad strike rate for a bunch of timewasters.
Of course it may be that these projects serially collapse of their own accord and climate camp is never even remotely a factor. 

[Brigg57]

Strategist,
I see your political song is to accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative (or are you too young to remember that one?)

I’m glad people are taking direct action to protect the environment. Your campaign, like Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth, seems a great form of protest to me – with a caveat, which I have to make at the risk of brickbats.

I’m not certain that nuclear-powered power plants etc are necessarily a bad thing.

Please note how incredibly tentative that statement is. It’s a genuine reflection of my scientific and technological knowledge, which is as unconfident as it is inadequate. I’m the worst sort of political fence-sitter when it comes to disputed scientific problems. On the environment, I listen to you and read the websites you direct me to, watch the tv programme on global warming, and i think yes, you’re absolutely right. But then I read the opposite arguments and I think, yes, they are absolutely right. Then I read your arguments and think...you get my drift. I really am the worst kind of person to make any judgement on this issue.

So emotionally I am drawn to your direct action, though I did recoil at the talk of new forms of political organisation championed in RPepper – that’s the point of my pointing to Jo Freeman’s pamphlet. I note that Arctic ice is disintegrating, a few hundred years too late for Henry Hudson. This is heralded as bad news, though I’m also drawn to the news that Canada is increasing its military plans for a region which is likely to become a new shipping lane between the Atlantic and the Pacific. Now imperialism I feel more confident about.

[rob9443]

So is Russia of course. Global warming is probably regarded as a good thing in the Kremlin since it could open up shipping lanes across the north of Russia from the Far East to Europe. And Russia has all those vast natural resources, including water, which might be geopolitically significant if China gets thirsty...

[Strategist]

Brigg, the nuclear power debate in the Greens is very active.

One side - Lynas, Monbiot among others - thinks it the lesser of two evils (the other evil being continued fossil fuel burning).

The other side - Jeremy Leggett, Sian Berry among others - think it is a distraction that will waste resources that could be better deployed into renewables including solar, and won't deliver fast enough. 

Neither side is making a big deal about reactor safety & nuclear waste, as both sides are seized by the urgency of the fight against climate change and accept that the risks involved are of relatively minor importance.  It an interesting debate, with occasional splendid lapses into personal abuse, and things have moved on a lot in just a few years. 

Re the Arctic, the most outrageous "on the one hand, on the other hand" I have yet heard was the news reporter's statement that a bonus of this is that it will now be easier to exploit oil reserves in the Arctic continental shelf.   

[Free Radical]

Hello all

I'm going to risk the brickbats and summarise my own views on this.

The threat of global warming may be overplayed and inaccurate and the sun may play a larger role in the climate than many have believed (and if this is correct we are entering a period of global cooling - 1998 was the warmest year in recent history).

There may be other undesirable consequences of releasing 60 million years worth of stored carbon in a short period - principally ocean acidification, which people are only beginning to wake up to. Dissolving the plankton and other calcium shelled creatures could disrupt the ocean ecosystems on a massive scale...

There is a 'desirable' consequence of increased CO2 in that it is a fertiliser of plant growth (hence it is pumped into glasshouses to increase production).

On balance I favour development of carbon storage at source, because of the remaining uncertainties around the effects of rising CO2.

On balance I think the risks of nuclear power have been overplayed, though Chernobyl was a horrible warning of what can happen. In the short run (next 20 or 30 years) I have no doubt that we will need more nuclear power in order to keep the electricity flowing.

Increasing nuclear capacity should not be allowed to derail renewables - the most promising of which in my personal opinion is solar - possibly tidal too.

I have a science background but I am not an 'expert' in any of this of course - it's based upon my scientific knowledge and general reading over the years.

[Strategist]

Another massive result for the Climate Campers - this time on the policing of the 2008 Kingsnorth camp.

These guys just keep on scoring goals. 

Environmental protesters have claimed a major legal victory after Kent Police admitted for the first time that it operated an unlawful stop and search policy against climate protesters at Kingsnorth power station in August 2008.

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index.php/news/content/view/full/86339

[fc01]

Another massive result for the Climate Campers - this time on the policing of the 2008 Kingsnorth camp.

These guys just keep on scoring goals. 

Environmental protesters have claimed a major legal victory after Kent Police admitted for the first time that it operated an unlawful stop and search policy against climate protesters at Kingsnorth power station in August 2008.

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index.php/news/content/view/full/86339

It seems every time there is something about this in the news your straight back on here beating your chest. 
The fact that the police acted unlawfully is neither here nor there.

The fact still stands that the camp was a complete waste of time and effort.  This is now proven even more so as the whole climate change debate has been blown sky high out of the water and people are finally waking up to the fact they have been duped by scientists  with their own agendas.  The pressure is building on the politicians regarding the energy debate and within a few months of the next general election Kings North will be back on the radar.  But when it does, I won’t come back and beat my chest.

[Strategist]

fc01 is back!

The fact that the police acted unlawfully is neither here nor there.

Bang goes your chance of a job as a judge in the new Supreme Court!

The fact still stands that the camp was a complete waste of time and effort... within a few months of the next general election Kings North will be back on the radar.

Or, Everton beating Chelsea last night was a complete waste of their time and effort, because Chelsea are going to win the league in the end anyway. 

the whole climate change debate has been blown sky high out of the water and people are finally waking up to the fact they have been duped by scientists  with their own agendas

Those pesky scientists!