Should Labour move to the left in order to win another term in office?

[wolfysmith]

Gordon Brown wage class war against the Tories

‘Tories are finally getting some scrutiny and are not holding up very well, Labour and even Lib Dem analysts say. Their EU policy is an implausible shambles. Their green credentials are curling at the edges. No one quite believes their declared economic strategy (do they believe it themselves?) or their welfare strategy. They seem callow and they're beginning to make mistakes.’

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2009/dec/03/gordon-brown-class-war-tories#start-of-comments

Resurgent Brown ready to declare class war on Tories

‘Public anger about bankers' pay, silenced for a time over the summer by the furore over MPs' expenses, has welled up again as resurgent City firms prepare to announce another bonanza bonus round.’

‘Labour feels that it is better placed, politically, against the background of an economy in trouble.’

‘‘I think they've suddenly woken up and realised that it's all to play for this May, and when the Tories talk about austerity, people are going to say, 'austerity for who?',’
Said Graham Turner, of City consultancy GFC Economics. In a recession, with the prospect of spending cuts and clampdowns on public sector pay, Tory tax breaks for millionaires look politically suicidal. And the behaviour of Conservative millionaires themselves is ripe for scrutiny.’

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/dec/06/brown-cameron-general-election-campaign

[wolfysmith]

What is the best chance of the Labour and Co-operative parties winning the general election under its current new-labour neo-conservative/neo-liberal policies, dose it need to reconnect with its traditional working class supporters as the middle classes desert it and return to voting Tory or Liberal-democrat?

[wolfysmith]

Cameron's gifts to the non-dom classes may turn toxic for the Tories

Labour has attacked the Tory proposal to raise the threshold at which inheritance tax applies to £1m because it amounts to a tax cut worth more than £1bn for the wealthiest 2% of families. Gordon Brown's comment about the "playing fields of Eton" was directed principally at Old Etonian Tory candidate Zac Goldsmith, it's about whether you had a privileged background and are trying to protect those privileges at the expense of the majority of the people of Britain.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/dec/01/cameron-gifts-nondoms-toxic-tories

[wolfysmith]

The illusion that we are all members of the ever-expanding middle class has been destroyed; bailout of the banks has cost £850bn equal to £5,500 per family.

The capitalist elite still get their £1m-plus bonuses and the conservative propose an inheritance tax break for these hard done by capitalists. Their greed has ruined the British economy yet rather than be punished for it they expect to be rewarded. And tax dodgers such as Zac Goldsmith with offshore tax havens, £Billions and privilege want us to pay for their greed and bad governance of the global economy, I think not.

Working class consciousness is waking up at last. We my own our homes rather than rent them but we still have to accept the crumbs from the table of the capitalist elite and it offends my British and socialist sense of what is fair. If the economy is in a mess and we need to make cuts in living standards it should be those who can afford to make the cuts and caused the problem that have to suffer not the poor, sick, disabled, unemployed or elderly, But the fat cat bankers and company CEO’s and directors who mismanaged the economy gambling on the stock market with the wealth created by the people of Britain whose standard of living should be cut. The Labour Party needs a wake up call from the people of Britain; it was formed by the working class labour movement to improve the standard of living of the people of Britain not a privileged global capitalist elite.   

[wolfysmith]

A slight hint of class, almost but unfortunately not quite

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index.php/news/content/view/full/84137

[willp]

Should Labour move to the left?
Should naughty people be nice?
Should socialists give up wishful thinking? YES

[wolfysmith]

Willp,

Short of a socialist revolution tomorrow what alternative do we have to the broad left supporting the return of a Labour government and opposing the worst of new-labour neo-liberal/neo-conservative Labour Party cabinet ministers by putting up communist, socialist and green candidates on a left programme based around the CPB’s

Left Wing Programme of alternative policies:
   
★ Tax the rich and big business profits
★ Raise pensions, benefits and the minimum wage
★ Stop subsidising railway and bank profits – take them all into public ownership
★ Invest public money in public services and productive industry
★ Cut household gas and electricity tariffs
★ Take the energy sector into public ownership and invest in renewable non-nuclear resources
★ Freeze supermarket prices
★ Scrap nuclear weapons and switch military production to civilian use
★ Withdraw British troops from Afghanistan Immediately

Plus actively supporting John McDonnell and the LRC's campaign group in the Labour Party

Re: There's unity in the air

http://forums.redpepper.org.uk/index.php/topic,1216.msg10149.html#msg10149

The alternative is to let the Tories return to power and see the gains achieved by the last one hundred and fifty years of struggle eroded even more than has occurred in the last thirty years. This may allow the ultra left to maintain its ideological purity but dose little for the people of Britain or the real cause of socialism, Marxist or otherwise.

[wolfysmith]

And when it comes to electing the new General Secretary of Unite members should support Len McCluskey the united Left candidate

http://www.unitedleft.org/

[willp]

Wolfy writes, "Short of a socialist revolution tomorrow what alternative do we have to the broad left supporting the return of a Labour government and opposing the worst of new-labour neo-liberal/neo-conservative Labour Party cabinet ministers by putting up communist, socialist and green candidates on a left programme based around the CPB’s Left Wing Programme of alternative policies?"
He starts with the usual anti-communist sneer - "short of a socialist revolution tomorrow ..."
The alternative is to oppose the employing class in all our workplaces, and fight for better wages and against job cuts.
That would do far more good than calling for the Labour Party to run the capitalist state on the same policies as the Tories.
Don't you know that Saint John McDonnell is trying to undermine the work of good Unison members?

[wolfysmith]

Willp,

The fight for better wages and against job cuts against the capitalist employers is the first line of defence in the class struggle, but as Lenin told Willie Gallacher we need to fight on both the economic and political battlefield and I know you think the strategy of 1920’s is no longer relevant and that new-labour are so lost to the cause of socialism or social-democracy as to be considered equally with the Tories and Liberals as the enemy of the working class and that taking part in the processes of bourgeois democracy have no value, But if has no other value than allowing the left to put its case for a socialist alternative to capitalism and the crisis, exploitation, alienation and social economic and environmental catastrophe that are the result of the pursuit of  profit from the surplus labour appropriated from the working class by the capitalist class then it has the value of exposing the people to an alternative understanding of how human society is constructed and the possibilities of a better alternative.

Re: Tories could still lose 
http://forums.redpepper.org.uk/index.php/topic,1282.msg10019.html#msg10019
   
I know that this is the ‘usual anti-communist sneer’ of a lifelong Marxist who chose in his youth to join the Labour Party rather than the Communist Party and have come to the CPB late in my fight for a socialist Britain and World. I could have chosen a different road to socialism than the AUEW/Amicus-Unite and Labour-Co-operative Party and then the Communist Party of Britain, but personally I think it was a practical and pragmatic strategy that was right for the mid twentieth century and a correct strategy for the 21st century. Time will tell if I am right and the greats like Lenin were correct or if socialism needs only the economic battles without a political strategy, but like Lenin I am still of the opinion that the Labour Party represents the mass party of labour in Britain with all its flaws and all attempts to replace it with a new mass party have failed whether it’s a socialist mass party such as the Socialist Labour Party of Arthur Scargill or the Social-Democrats and Liberal-Democrat parties. And as such I see the role of Marxists in the CPB and outside either in the Labour and Co-operative Party’s as giving theoretical perspective and understanding in the class struggle against the exploiting capitalist class both economic and political.
And that is why the people’s charter is central to a broad left strategy. Its not socialist or communist but gives a platform on which the left can unite as dose the CPB’s Alternative Economic and Political Strategy and Britain's Road to Socialism

www.thepeoplescharter.com

[wolfysmith]

What the Charter demands:
★ A fair economy for a fairer Britain
★ More and better jobs
★ Decent homes for all
★ Save and Improve our Services
★ Fairness and Justice
★ A better future

http://www.thepeoplescharter.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=19&Itemid=3

[wolfysmith]

The Peoples Charter in full

http://www.thepeoplescharter.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8&Itemid=19

Re: There's unity in the air

http://forums.redpepper.org.uk/index.php/topic,1216.msg9838.html#msg9838

   
Re: Theories and practice of capitalism

http://forums.redpepper.org.uk/index.php/topic,1275.msg9287.html#msg9287

Re: Is Imperialism the Final Stage of Capitalism?

http://forums.redpepper.org.uk/index.php/topic,1253.0.html

[rodge]

wolfy ...belated thanks for the background to our willie and lenin meeting.There does seem to be a lot of gnashing of teeth over this question to vote or not.The capitalist class,our rulers if you will always seem so clear on the subject.They vote for the party that best serves their interests at any given time.The rest of us must fall in and do the same vote the way they want us to.FALL IN OR FUCK OFFas i was told when i would not sign new contracts for PPP ON THE LONDON UNDERGROUND.Well yet again i shall not be voting .....my interests will never be served by any number of LABOUR M.P.s...if both houses were filled to the rafters...they are too self serving ....and seem bereft of any ideas on how they might be of use to the man in the street.Glenda Jackson,one of my favourite actresses of all time ,gave a speech prior to an election.Worthy of elizabeth 1st at Dover prior to the armada...she was stood infront of that world famous tube map of ours and said..THEY WONT BREAK UP MY TUBE...THE REST AS THEY SAY IS HISTORY....ALTHOUGH TO GIVE THE GIRL HER DUE ...I BELIEVE SHE DID VOTE AGAINST IRAQ WAR.No if you cant deliver ....you or nobody like you will be getting my vote anytime soon.

[wolfysmith]

Rodge,

I understand you sentiments, and like you Glenda Jackson is one of my favourite actresses and as you say her heart was in the right place even if her vote was ineffectual. My wife like you will not bring herself to vote Labour and will either not vote which goes against the grain or vote for the Green candidate. New-Labour are as low as the Labour Party has ever sunk and it stinks but by not voting all that will happen is we will get an even worse conservative government than the neo-conservative/neo-liberal new-labour government we have now. The Labour Party has always been a social-democratic party with a socialist wing and today it’s a conservative party with a liberal/social-democratic and socialist wing but that is still better than a conservative party with a far right fascist wing or the liberal party with? Who knows I don’t think they know what they stand for are they neo-liberal or neo-conservative are the liberals or conservatives or social-democrats or have they just lost the plot? Anyway they are irrelevant other than to prop up a minority Tory government. The point though as you say is the capitalist class will vote for the party that best serves the needs of capital. When that the Tories when they are in full attach on the working conditions and living standards of the people of Britain and when they need to be more careful they will back a Liberal or Social-democratic compromise. We need to be as smart as they are and although we know that we want a socialist government that takes control of the state apparatus and the economy, we should also make the tactical approach that the capitalist class makes and vote for a Labour government so that the labour movement has a greater opportunity to apply both economic and political pressure in order to protect those gains already won and not yet lost in the last thirty years of conservative and neo-conservative/neo-liberal offensive against the people of Britain and to as soon as possible go on the offensive towards the advance towards socialism and replacing capitalism. That my mean holding you nose and voting Labour rather than staying clean and letting the Tories back into power because that will only serve the capitalist elite and a few lucky members of the middle and working class at the expense of the majority.   

[laurencep]

Great quote from another board.  Will post the link shortly:

Labour that cringing gutless party of servants of the wealthy and its spineless members what else should we expect. But there will still be numpties telling us we must vote for Mandelson, Brown and the rest of the pimps.

No more blood, money or votes for Neo Liberal Labour

[laurencep]

Socialist Unity article on the Corus debacle and what should be done: nationalise

http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=4957#comments

worth reading the comments too

[rodge]

LAWRENCE....Well that takes mee back a few yearsat least 40..NUMPTY or NUMPTIES...i was working in scotland and my on/off relationship with a glaswegian girl ...she was fond of calling me a great numpty.! I'd always thought it was a term of endearment..at 19i had the rose tinted specs while she was much more worldly.Yes the word means someone who has naya clue...and yet prattles on....well i thought her harsh at the time!Which makes me wonder why any of these numties want us to vote in BROWN.....LORD MANDELSON CAN DO HIS WORST WITHOUT TROUBLING ABOUT VOTERS.....as can many of the cabinet.Sorry... I meant PIMPS.Yes please post the link....theres more to Scotland than just tartans and haggis,,,,,,more often than not ,,,,you get plain speaking as painfull as that can sometimes be!!

[Brigg57]

Numpty is a good word...

But those who use it should take care in case it comes back on them with greater force and relevance. The Scots look very likely to vote Labour in force in the next election, and that's because they've got their heads screwed on.

I've been unable to vote Labour since kinnock finished Thatcher's job for ehr by eliminating the socialst left fomr Labouor in the late 80s. I have a tactical, not a moral, attitude to voting, and I've voted labour before despite feeling they weren't going to do any good. But under Kinnock and Blair (Smithw as better than those two) a gut disgust was combined with a feeling that it didn't really matter tactically who won, and Labour was going to win anyway once the Windbag was succeeded by Christianity's answer to Richard Branson.

But I will have no difficulty whatever about voting for Labour next spring/summer, or in certain seats LibDem. They are dreadful, but the alternative is going to make me head to the polling booth to vote Labour. To me, only numpties wouldn't.

[wolfysmith]

Brigg,

As you say ‘John Smith was better’ it was his leadership victory that made me rejoin the Labour Party after leaving it when Jim Callaghan became leader in the 1970’s. Unfortunately he died in 1994 from a ‘heart attack’ (I could start a conspiracy theory hear) very convenient as he was prepared to engage with the left of the party and opposed changing Clause IV, the rest is history. You are also correct I think to say anyone who refuses to vote Labour so as to stay ideologically pure is a Numpty, voting for Labour next spring has got to be better than the dreadful alternative coming if the Tories and Liberal-democrats form the next government and to think otherwise are just cutting off their nose to spite their face as they say, unless they are voting tactically for a left candidate it is what Lenin called an infantile dieses, and doesn’t help the cause of socialism.
   

[rodge]

wolfy as i said ...numpty..i always take as word of endearment.My voting record so far has led to me being called a fascist ...communist...rightwing labourite ..lackey of the trade union bureaucracy...ultra leftist and just plain CUNT. Though as nearly always the person was buying me a beer ....i felt it rude to contradict him/her.Yes its a well trodden path....voting to put things in ...to keep things out..using amendments to delay potential disaster...and just sometimes we get a chance to vote for something important to wholeheartedly endorse. Principles....sorry are we allowed to use the word in a political post? Perhaps not.....i am a timorous beastie...PRINCIPLES...it is a nice word though...Yes the trade union is often where we cut our teeth with tactical voting...and live with the consequences...its where we have a modicum of control or power if you will.I have yet to see an example of successfull tactical voting in a general election.Lenin must have been a genius to pull that rabbit out of the hat....any other successes in the last80years?